Hang Them (sorry another rant)

[Tinker]

Knee-jerk reaction to yesterday's images.

Hang Them

Another nation's flag
flying in my flag's stead,
the proud stars and stripes
crumpled to ground as if dead.
My country's own children
defiling what I hold dear,
symbols of hard-won freedom
while they jeer and cheer.

Rage and disgust rise
from my very core.
In despair, I shout, wipe
them from this shore.
                   ~~Judi Van Gorder

[Terry A]

A poem that captures the pathos felt when one perceives how the political is not so easily ignored once a person grasps where things are headed. It’s not clear as to what images you are referring, would you mind posting a link?

Never apologize for showing such concern for the well-being of your country. The problems in Canada are similar. And in Europe. But censorship of information is increasing. All we read about is the extreme positions of the far left or the far right, as if the great silent majority does not exist. Some have called the silent majority- the sleeping giant, it is those in whom any hope rests.

I read the popular internet is now being scrubbed of any references to Kamala Harris thought to be uncomplimentary to her. That means her whole history is being sanitized. It’s almost humorous, but hard to laugh about. I have a poem about the concerns you write about too, Judi.  I’ll post it, solidarity in concern, from a Canadian perspective.

 

 

 

 

[Tinker]

Hi Terry,  We have the right to protest peacefully.  I have been involved in a peaceful protest march in my younger days.  But destroying public property with graffiti, raising another country's flag above your own nation's flag on US soil, crumpling it on the ground, and setting it on fire is criminal.  Watching this was infuriating to me.  Unbelievably, the charges against the perpetrators have been dropped and they walk away from this with no consequences. My judgement, the perps would be made to clean up the defaced monuments with a toothbrush and lick the ashes of the burned flag with their tongues.  Can you tell, I'm still angry.    I'm going to look for your poem

ProPalestine Protesters burn American flag.  Graffiti monuments and the Liberty Bell.  

[Terry A]

Thanks for posting the link, Judi. Fully understandable why you feel the way you do, your poem appreciates your view.

There has been protests in Canada against the actions Israel is taking against Palestine but so far they have been peaceful and non-destructive.  No good outcome is predicted for Israel. 

[David W. Parsley]

Sorry, but I find the conversation on both sides to be harmfully simplistic.  I consider myself something of a Zionist.  But I am no fan of Nothing-Yahoo and his decades of abuses: illegal settlements in violation of treaty; turning a blind eye to settler violence; at best, callous disregard for collateral damage to civilians, at worst deliberate encouragement for them to leave their homeland.  He really is a criminal and should be subject to appropriate justice.

But Hamas.  Really?  How can anybody countenance that inflexible enmity, their unmitigated disregard for civilian safety, even that of their own!  They actually want the "martyrdom" of their human shields, deliberately embed themselves in domiciles, hospitals, and schools.  The undisguised objective is to create the kind of natural sympathy which the uninformed latch onto to the neglect of the wider view.  Dumber than those who believe Russian-authored disinformation.  And to be so misguided as to raise a Palestinian flag over the ashes of our own!  Good grief, people, get a grip!

Where is the capacity to actually think, rather than simply react?  Plagues and houses, as Mercutio would say.  They'll end up making worm's meat of us all.

Perplexed,
 - David

[Terry A]

Israel, by extracting so high a civilian toll in Palestine, particularly on children, maimed, killed or now starving has radicalized a generation (and their neighbours) against it. How can this go well? They have insured they will never eradicate Hamas. Hamas, who wears the clothes of ragged goat-herders as well as the garb of their elite.

Innocence is difficult to determine when propaganda rules the airwaves. Motives, even more difficult. It all stinks.

[David W. Parsley]

To be clear, motives are more easily judged when quoting the persons of concern, e.g.

Hamas leader said civilian death toll could benefit militant group in Gaza war, WSJ reports | CNN

Human sacrifice is central to Hamas’s strategy (thehill.com)

Watch: Hamas Leader Vows to 'Sacrifice Martyrs' in Another Oct. 7-Style Attack (msn.com)

What do you do with a governing body and/or resistance group that denies your nation's right to exist and is bent on destroying it?  Who does not even bother to build shelters for their own populace, because their martyrdom is a justifiable means to the end of eradicating your country? 

Gazans get it:

Hamas faces growing public dissent as Gaza war erodes support (bbc.com)

In Gaza, anger grows at Hamas along with fury at Israel : NPR

 

[Terry A]

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/1/22/how-israel-has-repeatedly-rejected-hamas-truce-offers

Palestine must be recognized as a State by Israel and the rest of the world. And Israel must not again be allowed to keep land annexed in this latest conflict.

 

 

[Terry A]

The details provided in the link can be fact checked by any disputing them. I consider suicide bomber extremism far past any justification. But nor, can I defend the actions of the Israeli leadership. who has conducted their own version of sacrifice regarding Palestinian civilians.

 

 

[Tinker]

Honestly, this poem wasn't about Israel or Hamas....... It was about the disrespect to public property and iconic if not sacred symbols of my country

I'm all for peaceful protest.   I appreciate the passion, especially in the young behind a cause. The problems of the middle east are ancient and ongoing with blame on both sides.  It's another subject.   My ire expressed in this poem is with what these protesters did.  Don't graffiti the Liberty Bell or trample and burn the US flag on US soil.  Don't raise another country's flag above the US flag on US soil.    Action such as described just turns people like me off to listening.